Hope for the Depressed by Ed Welch
Be sure to see the number 2 at the bottom of the page for the second part of the article.
HT: Justin Taylor
Archive for the 'Suffering' Category
This is partly written for future use when I need to use it. It’s also under the category of “if you care to know”.
I’d like to mention some things. On another blog a commenter thought I was post-modern and was very critical of me because I didn’t “man-up”. Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t understand it myself. Other times people come here and fire a drive by shot.
Masculinity isn’t about “manning-up” or picking fights. I see a lot of harsh treatment of each other on other blogs (not many at all of the regular commenters here though) and it seems to be the norm.
I started out as a 145lb. weakling and eventually became a 220lb. powerlifter (below). Although I was a Christian, I was a hot-head and thought I had a lot of answers. I never fought in real life but online I was often looking for an argument and offline wasn’t afraid of telling people how much I disagree with them (I wasn’t just a keyboard warrior).
I can see this aspect of myself in others, especially those who are younger. Ah, to be young and know it all.
Then I developed some mental health difficulties which became very humbling. God used and is still using suffering along with Scripture to help me see others in a different light.
Then I developed major back problems. This brought me further along. I’m now a 168lb. weakling which is pretty humbling after losing all that. It takes all my energy just to maintain the tiny bit of extra muscle I still have.
Lately God is doing another round of helping me to be more gentle, peace loving etc. mainly through Scripture by itself this time thankfully. I sure have a long way to go though.
It’s more masculine to hold back and be meek when dealing with others, especially those who are Christians. It’s also masculine to be extremely forceful with those who are oppressing others. The latter isn’t usually what we deal with on Christian blogs when we’re interacting with each other.
So if you want me to “man-up” or are looking for an argument (as opposed to a discussion) or want to incite me, it probably won’t happen unless I reach a moment of weakness or am defending truth, justice and the American way. Interesting paradox.
James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere.
When Trials Come
When trials come no longer fear
For in the pain our God draws near
To fire a faith worth more than gold
And there His faithfulness is told
And there His faithfulness is told
Within the night I know Your peace
The breath of God brings strength to me
And new each morning mercy flows
As treasures of the darkness grow
As treasures of the darkness grow
I turn to Wisdom not my own
For every battle You have known
My confidence will rest in You
Your love endures Your ways are good
Your love endures Your ways are good
When I am weary with the cost
I see the triumph of the cross
So in it’s shadow I shall run
Till You completes the work begun
Till You completes the work begun
One day all things will be made new
I’ll see the hope You called me to
And in your kingdom paved with gold
I’ll praise your faithfulness of old
I’ll praise your faithfulness of old
Keith & Kristyn Getty
Copyright © 2005 Thankyou Music
This is one of the great paradoxes of suffering. Those who don’t suffer much think suffering should keep people from God, while many who suffer a great deal turn to God, not from him.
–Randy Alcorn, If God Is Good
Unfortunately and fortunately I know the latter from experience and find it impossible to explain to non-Christian friends and family. People always want to ‘fix’ me, despite my constant researching and gaining knowledge on my conditions beyond what they have, because they can’t understand that there is unexplainable suffering in the world.
I feel like I have the opportunity to know God more than those who don’t suffer chronically. But I admit I envy those who do without the extreme suffering part although we all obviously suffer a great deal at various time in our lives. This is humbling because I’m sure that I wouldn’t have gotten as close to Him without it.
HT: Challies.com – review of this book
I hope this isn’t too much and isn’t confusing. What I’m asking is for suggestions on how I could have responded to Emily at 12:24 in a more constructive way. I thought I did but then I was told she is the one who knows what people should do and that my tongue is death. I get so tired of people responding to suffering in this way and I thought I was being half way decent.
I’d like to know how I might better handle these people. (Emily just replied today.)
Jeff
—————
In the comments to the post
Scripture of the Day
we have:
god is good,how quickly we forget.i,m out of a job due 2 the economy,i just need for my basics to be met, lightbills etc.my husband is doing the best he can it is not enough
————-
Then there are other comments which weren’t very helpful which I replied to. I think wrote this post:
Am I being too harsh?
Then back to the original post I get another comment with a platitude.
Emily
The name of the Lord is a strong tower. He is our provider…no job that you could ever have will provide like he will. He will never leave us nor forsake us and he knows our needs and situations before we ever do. Start speaking those things that are not as though they are and you will see what he is capible of. Instead of telling God how big your situation is….start telling your situation how big your God is. He is faithful all the time.
God Bless
to which I replied:
Emily, nice comment but again I wouldn’t assume what people are or aren’t doing.
Jeff
Here is the rest:
From the book Things Unseen by Mark Buchanan:
Few things have the power to fashion in us utter trust in God and deep conformity to the character of Jesus Christ like suffering does. Few things build our faith and refine our faith like it does. What others intend for evil, God uses for good. He takes trials of many kinds and from them makes possible in us the heart of His Son. And to become like Christ is our everlasting destiny. Thus, such trials achieve for us an eternal glory that far outweighs all else.
Genesis 50:20
You intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good. He brought me to this position so I could save the lives of many people.
2 Corinthians 4:17
For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.
I’ve been having a difficult time the last few days and especially today. I like this post that I put on another blog and thought I’d post it here.
I sense that people often feel a need to be right and one way to exercise this is to give advice to those who are suffering so that they can fix them. Then if they get better they can feel good about how they were right. Two problems with this is that it makes the sufferer feel like they are seen as not as smart as those who don’t suffer as much because much of the “advice” is already known by the sufferer and in fact the sufferer usually knows much more about the subject than the person giving the advice! People don’t always suffer because of lack of knowledge. It also shows that we can forget that although we can help each other, God is ultimately the who heals, who decides a person’s fate and who is always right.
From Still Higher For His Highest by Oswald Chambers
January 20
Temperamental-the way a man looks at life. My temperament is an inner disposition which influences my thoughts and actions to a certain extent, i.e., I am either pessimistic or optimistic according to the way my blood circulates. It is an insult to take the temperamental line in dealing with human beings-”Cheer up, look on the bright side”; there are some types of suffering before which the only thing you can do is to keep your mouth shut. There are times when a man needs to be handled by God, not by his fellow men, and part of the gift of a man’s wisdom is to know how to be reverent with what he does not understand.
Job 2:13
Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.
I think Oswald Chambers had a good knowledge of what I call “real psychology” as opposed to our typical psycho-babble. (That’s not the main topic of his devotionals though.) D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones is another one who was ahead of his time in this regard.
I found this tucked into an interview with Randy Alcorn on suffering and evil.
How Could A Good God Allow Suffering and Evil? (PDF Document)
A Biblical Approach To The Logical And Emotional Problems Of Evil
by Andrew David Naselli
One of my favorite parts is:
You shouldn’t say certain things to people who are suffering.
The first eight are from Feinberg, who shares what is inappropriate to say.
- Don‘t say, “There must be some great sin you‘ve committed; otherwise this wouldn‘t be happening to you.”
- “Another mistake is to focus on the loss of things rather than the loss of people.”
- “Sometimes people try to comfort us by convincing us that what has happened spares us from other problems.” “Insensitive speculations about the future” are not helpful.
- Don‘t say, “Well, everyone‘s going to die from something. You just know in advance what it is in your wife‘s case.” That‘s comfort?
- “As we fumble for something to say that will comfort our friend or loved one, somehow it seems appropriate to say, “I know how you must feel at a time like this.” Through my experiences, I have learned how unhelpful this comment can be. One problem is that it isn‘t true, and the sufferer knows it. Hence, it sounds phony when you say it. . . . What helps is not knowing you feel like I do but knowing that you care!”
- “My friend replied that I was too focused on various models of God and that I needed to recognize that God is bigger than all those conceptions [of God].” This “treats what is fundamentally an emotional problem as if it were an intellectual problem.”
- Don‘t say, “When things like this happen, aren‘t you glad you‘re a Calvinist? Isn‘t it great to know that God is ultimately in control of it all, and he‘s already planned the way out of your problem?” “I am a Calvinist, and I found that comment distressing, not helpful.”
- Don‘t say, “You aren‘t spiritually mature until you‘re happy about this.” Feinberg heard an interview on Moody radio of a couple that had just lost their daughter in an auto-accident: “They concluded that even though the loss of their daughter was hard, it was all for the best. I heard that and felt more guilt. It seemed the height of Christian maturity to take life‘s harshest blows and say that it was good that this had happened. If that was what it meant to be victorious in the midst of affliction, I knew I was far from that. I couldn‘t rejoice over the evil that had befallen and would befall my family. But I thought I was supposed to, so my sense of inadequacy increased.”
- Don‘t glibly quote Romans 8:28. Not helpful!
- “Many verbal expressions of encouragement should not be based on the assumption that they must answer an implicit ‘Why?‘ Not everyone asks that question.”
In addition to Feinberg:
See the document for things you can do.
Jeff,
I was not assuming at all just trying to encourage and after reading the very first posting:
god is good,how quickly we forget.i,m out of a job due 2 the economy,i just need for my basics to be met,housenote/trucknote/lightbills etc.my husband is doing the best he can it is not enough
The part that says “my husband is doing the best he can it is not enough” basically is saying what her situation is so I was just saying instead of speaking that it is not enough….tell her situation how big her God and start speaking that he needs are met. Be careful what you speak out of your mouth because the power of life & death is in the tongue and we can cause damage if we are not careful.
Jeff I was speaking to myself also in saying this, it should go for all of us. So before you blast somebody that is trying to be of encouragement to someone else, think before you speak and remember once again…life & death are in the tongue!
” Instead of telling God how big your situation is….start telling your situation how big your God is.”
You were reading a lot into her situation and what she is and isn’t doing. All she was saying is that financially her husband’s job isn’t enough right now. She also said that God is good. A platitude isn’t going to do much good for her right now. Job’s friends had plenty of them.
See this post:
Am I being too harsh?
Jeff
Jeff – I am not going to argue with you. Once again it was not an attack on anyone just simply trying to encourage another child of God and I don’t understand why you felt like I was calling her out in a negative manner or see fit to start a dispute with me. You should take that encouragement to, as well as her, & even myself. Everyone should take that and use it, it is very helpful and speaks volume in reminding us that God is greater than any situation we may face whether it be financial, relationship, family…etc and he is in control if we allow him to be.
OK then. I know you were trying to help.
Jeff