Instead of repenting of the false teaching called ‘seed faith’, which is part of what’s popularly known as the prosperity gospel, the seed faith idea was exalted at Oral Roberts memorial service.
Oral Roberts Memorial a Stage for Seed Faith Message
See:
NewsNote: The Death of Oral Roberts by Albert Mohler
Measuring Oral Roberts’ Influence by John MacArthur
Some say not to speak ill of the dead. His teachings need to be spoken out against because they are alive and well.
I’m going to do my best to not write anything critical for two and a half weeks, just as an exercise because I’ve gotten a little too critical lately, starting in a couple of days. So this is my last shot for a while and maybe it will last longer. I still need to work on being less critical but won’t stop speaking out against things unbiblical or what I strongly believe in.
Jeff,
I’m right there with you. As a former Pentecostal and Charismatic, I know intimately the dangers of the prosperity gospel, especially within the Pentecostal/Charismatic context. What’s most disturbing about this whole ordeal is this: Roberts’ Pentecostal and Charismatic brethren have not as a whole come out and rejected his heretical message. Having been a part of the movement, I think I can safely assume that the reason for this is they refuse to “sell out” someone of their “ingroup”, i.e. continuationist.
It’s heartbreaking when the truth is smothered for the sake of one’s pet doctrines.
Keep up your good work!
Thank you and thanks for stopping by.
Jeff
The problem isn’t criticizing Roberts’ theology. It’s criticizing it with reference to his death. It seems awfully two-faced to me when people say he was a great man and did a lot of good on the one hand but then talk about how he was a heretic on the other especially when they’d never do that with a family member or friend who had just died.
I don’t think he was a great man but I hope he’s in heaven. I wouldn’t have written anything if I didn’t see what all those people affirmed at his memorial.
Jeff
What’s funny is that he does get that seed faith from the Bible. Maybe he interprets it wrong (or not according to what modern Bible scholars believe) but it’s not like he’s reading another book and coming up with that seed faith idea. I’ll be honest when I first read the Bible I interpreted those passage on to mean all sorts of things and giving wasn’t something that was impossible to see in it.
Furthermore, what if he truly believes it and believes he’s been seeing it work for all his life both in his life and in others? It’s easy to assume someone just wants money or has greedy motives but maybe he has plenty of stories where he gave his last dime “in faith” and saw God give back to him way more than he could have imagined. In that case maybe he sees himself as giving a gift to people, in teaching them that principle, that will really bless their life. Maybe it won’t work on everyone (which is what we usually use to discredit it… we point to the people who gave and didn’t get back) but since when has principles not working for everyone stopped Christians from teaching them?
Lastly, it is interesting how upset people can get when you talk about money. People often see preachers like Roberts as putting too much emphasis on money, way more than they should, but aren’t they putting just as much emphasis on money by getting so worked up about what he teaches on it that they don’t agree with? Seems like both sides think money is a pretty big deal. Maybe.
I do kind of like the idea that you can’t out give God. I think that is kind of inspiring. I even heard that recently from a pastor who is theologically informed in a message he gave on giving. And he isn’t at all near the tradition that Oral Roberts belonged to. It’s interesting to see that Roberts had a big role to play in spreading that idea.
Anyway just some thoughts. It’s good that you are working on being less critical. That’s something that I’m trying to do as well. : )
It doesn’t work for the poor widows he convinced to give him their money. That’s not OK with me. We reap what we sow in spiritual terms. God isn’t an ATM. If he had good motives, plenty of admonition was ignored.
I don’t know what else I can say.
I do appreciate you stopping by and commenting.
Let’s see how well we do.
Jeff
But do you know why it didn’t work for those poor widows? What of the people it did work for? Is it okay with you then?
If I think positively and money comes to me does that mean it worked?
Jeff
If you prayed for someone to get better and they did, did your prayer work or at least make a difference? If you prayed for those you love to be kept safe by God and they were did your prayer work?
I think when people dismiss ideas because they don’t work for everyone then by their own logic they end up sawing the branch they’re sitting on.
God may not be an ATM but he is generous, more than we could imagine, and money happens to be one of the things he is generous with, among other things. That is definitely found in the Bible, you don’t even have to look hard to find it. Maybe that conflicts with some other things we find In the Bible but we can’t blame people if they take the Bible at it’s word on that.
Of course God is generous. I don’t have much money so please send me as much as you can. Then we will both benefit.
Jeff
Don’t have much money? Sound like enough for some seed faith!
; )
Good one. I guess you’re never too poor to give. Even the old widow with one penny got swindled by the Pharisees.
You need to ask me to send it to your ministry though.
Merry Christmas. I got more than I deserve in more ways than one. I have so much to be thankful for even with difficulties.
Jeff
Wow. I was raised in a Christian home by two parents who loved me very much and made sure that God was forefront in our lives. We listened religiously to Jimmy Swaggart and Kenneth Copeland and attended an Assembly of God church. I had a tender heart for God and a desire for the truth and to please Him from a very young age. As I got older, however, I found the “prosperity” teaching to be very emotional and in many ways manipulative of scripture. Please understand, I am not trying to be unfairly critical, just honestly speaking from my heart. When I study the life of Christ, his discourses when He was here on earth and His heart toward His disciples and those who followed Him, I find it difficult to see where prosperity seeking seems to fit in at all. It just really seems irrelevant to me. Sure, it is clear that we are not to love money, and I do believe God blesses people as He sees fit. But shouldn’t our goal be to die daily to self? To seek things eternal? To do good works that God has planned for us in advance? I am not by any means wealthy, but I have everything monetarily that I need and many things that I want, and I do enjoy them. However, they really do not seem like “blessings” to me. They are what they are. But, there is a part of me that wonders if those who truly depend on the Lord for where their next meal is coming from and other necessities aren’t much more blessed than I? To know Him and depend on Him is an amazing lesson in the Lord. I hope I do not offend. And, be encouraged, anyone who truly seeks the truth will find it.