I think it’s about church discipline, as does Adam Clarke (old) and R.C. Sproul.
so a number of persons united together in warm, earnest, cordial prayer, is highly pleasing in the sight and ears of the Lord. Now this conjoint prayer refers, in all probability, to the binding and loosing in the preceding verse; and thus we see what power faithful prayer has with God!
–Adam Clarke on Matthew 18:19
Some think it’s an idea that breaks off the context into a wider scope like Matthew Henry (old) and Bryan Chapell for example. What do you think? If you think it’s about general prayer, how is it relevant? If you don’t, are there other passages that would convey this idea? I think James 5:16 would be the closest I can think of.
In any case I don’t think there are necessarily “strength in numbers” aside from the other benefits of group prayer like being encouraged, learning of new ideas of how to pray for the person you’re praying for, getting to know other people by how they pray, etc.
Matthew 18:15-20 HCSB
“If your brother sins against you, go and rebuke him in private. If he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16 But if he won’t listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the testimony of two or three witnesses every fact may be established.
17 If he pays no attention to them, tell the church. But if he doesn’t pay attention even to the church, let him be like an unbeliever and a tax collector to you.
18 I assure you: Whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven.
19 Again, I assure you: If two of you on earth agree about any matter that you pray for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them.”
I do not think Jesus is teaching about corporate prayer here. I think he is teaching the promise of his presence and authority when believers go through the unsettling process of discipline.
Seems to me the context has to do with the church’s involvement in judicial matters. No mention of prayer is in or near the pericope (vv 15-20). In fact, the word “pray” or its cognates are nowhere in the entire chapter. (Similarly, Paul speaks of the church’s involvement with discipline and/or adjudicating amongst its members, 1 Cor. 5 and 1 Cor. 6:4). Agreeing on “anything” does not literally mean “any thing” but is likely restricted to matters to do with discipline. The context certainly supports this.
Just thinking…
Paul
Yep, church discipline, but one could argue that the principle of anything being done in his name means his presence as well.
Isn’t it amazing then how many people use this as a passage for prayer?
In going through the book Praying Backwards by Bryan Chapell, first on my own and then in group Bible study, I was amazed he used these verses pertaining to corporate prayer. He’s the president of a seminary so I thought there may be some merit to this view and maybe there still is. But I can’t find it. (It’s a great book BTW)
Jeff
Perhaps Bryan Chapell has given us an example of eisegesis.
Jeff: I preached this passage several years ago, explaining (at least I thought) how low-attendance prayer meetings were not the object of Jesus’ teaching, but rather discipline of a sinning brother, and I still have church members who quote this verse when we have low attendance! AGGGHHHHH!!!
Boy, that must be frustrating. Maybe you could preach about sleeping during sermons.
Jeff
Jeff: Sadly, it wouldn’t fall on deaf ears. Maybe sleeping ears, though…
I do not believe that verse has anything to do with prayer! In looking at the scriptures in context we see that Jesus is speaking about church discipline. The text of the verses must be kept in their context with the verses around them. Starting with verse 15 of Matt.18 “But if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.” It begins with brother to brother trespass one against the other. In verse 16 -But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. It says we are to take two or three to be a witness so that every word may be established. And in going back into the Old Testament we can confirm Matt. 18:16. In Deut.19:15 ,the same thought is express about there being at lest two or three witness and this verse -is dealing with sin. Deut.19:15 “One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.” We can find more insight in 2 Chron.19:6-7, Look at -v6) It says -“And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.” and in V7)“Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.” In these two verses we see that when one judges he’s not standing in that place judging a man as a man, but as one that represents the LORD, then the LORD tell him to let the fear of the LORD to be upon him in his judging and that he should take heed. For there is no iniquity with the LORD, nor respect of person, nor does HE take bribes. He also says that HE is with them in judgment. Leviticus 19:15 tells us: “Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor.” And Deuteronomy 1:17 says: “Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall “hear” the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God’s: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.” This verse says that the Judgment is God’s.
So in keeping text in context – we shall look at verse 18, 19 and 20 – 18 “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
19 “Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.”
20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
For Verse 18 -Lets look at John 20:23 which says: “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” Doesn’t that sound just like what verse 18 is saying, as those that would stand in the place of judgment for sin – Church Discipline? ,v18) “… Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Verse 19 – also talks about two or three agreeing together in Church discipline and not general prayer. Those judging sin would be gathering together to judge sin righteously in God’s Presence. Which would be the Elders of the Church, thus Church Discipline.
verses 20 – This verse to talks about God being present when two or three are gathered for Church Discipline and about the Church acting as the office of God, not about God’s presence or absence when less are gathered. Do you remember what 2 Chron. 19:6 “…but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment”
Even if we continue on into the next two verses, verses 21 & 21the context is still speaking of sin.
21 “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?”
22 “Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
Now, looking at Peter’s first exposure to this, two chapters earlier in Matt 16? What was the context there? It seems from the passage that Jesus was also talking about the Church.
Mat 16:18 “And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
Mat 16:19 “And I will give the keys of the kingdom of Heaven to you. And whatever you may bind on earth shall occur, having been bound in Heaven, and whatever you may loose on earth shall occur, having been loosed in Heaven.”
Christ says: Upon this rock (meaning Christ Himself) I will build my Church…… Our Lord is talking about His Church. He is telling Peter about the authority the church will have.
thankful for any feed back: I only want to be Biblically correct.
I’m with you Lynn. I agree with what you say. I only want to be Biblically correct also. The only thing that gives me pause is there are some pretty smart people who think this refers to prayer, like Bryan Chappell for instance in his book on prayer. There are other dead commentators who believe this can be both about church discipline and then suddenly spread out to the idea of prayer at that point. I don’t really know why they believe this. But then there are those like R.C. Sproul (if I remember correctly) who adamantly say this is not about prayer. I still stand by what you say here.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I had wanted to touch on prayer last night, but it was after 1:00am I just couldn’t stay up any longer even thought I had more to say.
SO,
– Matt. 18:18 says: “Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Ok, Lets say that passage of scripture is about prayer. About binding and losing. Of which most use as prayer against the devil to bind him. So, lets ask some questions here – If when you pray and you bind the devil in a situation, is he not bond? And if I bind him is he not also bound? And if your and I are praying the for the same thing do we both need to bind him. And for how long is he bound? When does he get free from being bound? What is the effect that loosens him from being bound? Think about HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BOUND HIM OVER THE LAST SAY 50 -60 YEARS and have prayed that way. Has he not been bound for all those years that have gone by? For how long then is he bound for? Can he loosen himself? If you are using GODs Word does he have the power to break the Word of GOD that has been spoken over him? Is he not still at work in the earth today causing deception? Can we see any evidences that shows us that he is still at work in the earth or in the church today? Can we not look at our world and see that it’s getting worse and worse?
And doesn’t scripture tell us in Revelation 20:1-3 that he is going to be bound for1000 years? Would you not agree that this is a picture of him truly being bound so that he can no longer work his deceptions in the earth as the scriptures say?
Revelation 20:1-3
“ 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. “
I heard this pastor pray last year at the National Day of Prayer for healing. He bound up cancer from coming on the people and then said to the Lord, I want to see this happen in within the next three months. This Doesn’t really sound like he believed his own prayer does it? If he bound up cancer was it not done? Was healing loosed on every person that has cancer? NO! it was not!!! Nor will it ever be! Because the only prayers that ever get answered are the prayers that are in accordance with the will of Almighty God! Does everyone of your prayers get answered? No! Neither do mine!
Please look at the context of where this passage sits – right in the middle of verses that are talking about sin. That has to mean something – don’t you think?
This knowledge or understanding of the text was REVEALED TO ME when I studied out this passage of scriptures using what is called INDUCTIVE BIBLE STUDY METHOD. This type of Bible Study doesn’t specifically tell you what the Bible means or what you should believe, and the Bible is your primary source of information. Where you gather the facts about the scriptures themselves. The word Inductive says that you are taking out of the scriptures what the Author SAID, Not making the scripture say what someone else said that say.
In an Inductive Study the process is – First- YOU PRAY-
Then “YOU” OBSERVE the Word of God; then “YOU” INTERPRET the Scriptures that you just OBSERVED, then “YOU” make an APPLICATION of what you have learned. Thus “YOU” become a doer of the WORD of GOD!
PRAISE BE TO GOD! MAY HE CAPTURE OUR VERY HEARTS!