Comments on: “Brothers” in Philippians 4:21

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 06:06:22 +0000

Does the Greek word for sister ἀδελφὴ really mean sister?
Jeff

By: ElShaddai Edwards

ElShaddai Edwards — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:45:07 +0000

It’s less cumbersome to read than “brothers and sisters,” which occurs a lot in the TNIV.I think it’s time for a new word in English. I propose “bristers”.

By: Brian

Brian — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 04:35:25 +0000

I like the “friends” of the NRSV. It’s less cumbersome to read than “brothers and sisters,” which occurs a lot in the TNIV. I support this use (at times) but worry if it is a bit of an anachronism from the issues of our present culture.

By: TC

TC — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:24:29 +0000

Bryan L, you’ve put up a great argument indeed for the TNIV’s rendering.

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:18:11 +0000

Thanks for the comments Bryan. I'm not sure why the formatting doesn't work sometimes.

I wasn't including the list from Colossians because it was exhaustive or because it would be the same group of people as when he wrote Philippians. It was just given as an example. Your points are well taken.

I would still rather err on the safe side but ultimately this isn't of major importance. Very educational though.
Jeff

By: Bryan L

Bryan L — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:10:38 +0000

Sorry I wrote that with paragraph breaks but for some reason it didn’t transfer when I submitted it.Bryan EL

By: Bryan L

Bryan L — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:08:28 +0000

I think "brothers and sisters" was fine in the TNIV and maybe more accurate. We don't actually know who exactly was with Paul when he wrote Philippians since he doesn't mention anyone. We can discuss the evidence of Colossians but I don't think it will bear negatively on the TNIV's renderring.We can assume he wrote the letter to the Philippiand from his imprisonment in Rome and that it comes chronologically after Colossians and Philemon which were also apparently written from his imprisonment in Rome. Colossians which would have been written earlier indicates that only Aristarchus is actually in prison with Paul (and not the other 5) and the others listed in Col 4:10-14 seem to only be mentioned because they are known to the church of Colossae or because of something note worthy about them (see comments below concerning 4:11), so the list shouldn't be seen as limiting or exhaustive.4:11 mentions that the first three listed are the only ones among his coworkers who are of the circumcision (this appears to be speaking of not Jewish Christians as the NLT has it but those who are of the same group that is often hostile to Paul's mission). I'd assume that Paul has many more co-workers with him in Rome than just the few listed in 4:10-14 (which I mentioned above should not be seen as limiting or exhaustive) and that some of them are even Jewish Christians (against the rendering in 4:11 by the NLT). After all if Paul was in Rome when he wrote Colossians then he may have been around Prisca and Aquila (mentioned in Rom 16:3) who were Jewish Christians as well as Junia and Andronicus (mentioned in Rom 16:7) who appear to also have been Jewish. So if those two couples were still in Rome with him Paul when he wrote Colossians and both couples seem to have been co-workers with Paul in the past, and particularly faithful and close co-workers, then we have at least two women (Prisca and Junia) that were with Paul who were his co-workers and one of them was even in prison with him at one time in the past (Junia). That would lead me to believe that there were probably women co-workers with Paul in Rome when he wrote both Colossians and Philippians and that the TNIV is justified in saying "brothers and sisters" in Philippians 4:21 since Paul probably had women co-workers in mind as well.Anyway that's just my opinion.Bryan EL

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 06:16:45 +0000

What am I, mud? (smiley goes here)

By: tc robinson

tc robinson — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 05:07:47 +0000

Bryan, you have made a great argument. I’ll have to rethink my position. Thanks.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 04:41:10 +0000

*absoluteLY for
That was what I meant in line 1 of the second paragraph, not absolute.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 04:38:57 +0000

Contextually, I’d have to go with “brothers” here, as that’s who we know for sure. There may have been females with Paul, but Scripture (which is our highest authority that we have) doesn’t reveal that to us. I have no problem with “friends” or “colleagues” because those are also contextually understood. I don’t want to translate on who might hypothetically have been there- but on who I know was there.

That being said, when we know that there was a mixed crowd, I am absolute for the use of “brothers and sisters,” as I have attested in my own translations. I would agree with the TNIV translation of adelphoi pretty much every time (this being one exception).

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:30:36 +0000

Thanks for the post on your blog. I’ll be looking in on it.
Jeff

By: tc robinson

tc robinson — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:05:15 +0000

Maybe… haha

By: New Leaven

New Leaven — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:03:32 +0000

Does Paul Mean “Brothers” or “Brothers and Sisters” at Philippian 4:21?…

Over at Scripture Zealot, Jeff takes issue with the TNIV’s rendering of the Greek adelphoi as “brothers and sisters” at Philippian 4:21 against, let’s say, the NLT’s “brothers.”
Jeff then goes on to quote Col 4…

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:59:50 +0000

Zondervan thanks you.
Jeff

By: tc robinson

tc robinson — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:14:03 +0000

Jeff, I’ll go for “brothers and sisters.” I guess you knew that.

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 01:28:14 +0000

we can’t say that the TNIV went to far either. Would that be a fair judgment?

I suppose there are different angles to look at it. If I were to choose between brothers or brothers and sisters I would choose the former. Unless adelphoi really doesn't mean brothers. Mike has convinced me that friends would be the next best alternative.

I guess I can't say if they've gone too far. It just seems that TNIV almost always automatically inserts brothers and sisters where NIV had brothers. That may be too rash of a judgment.

I'm not trying to knock the translation in general. I like it a lot even though it's heretical and panders to feminist political ideology (kidding!). Just interested in comments (which have been very good) on this exercise.
Jeff

By: TC

TC — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 00:47:39 +0000

TC, we still don’t know if any sisters were with him while he was in prison do we?That is true, so we can’t say that the TNIV went to far either. Would that be a fair judgment?

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:50:20 +0000

Thanks for pointing out friends vs. colleagues. I would trust you with the Greek nuance and now that I think about it, friends would fit better in the context.
Jeff

By: mike

mike — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:40:28 +0000

“Is the translation of adelphos as brother just tradition that should go by the wayside? Aside from gender, isn’t there some sort of an affiliation? ”

I’m not sure. All I know is that there is a debate about the word’s meaning. Its not something I’ve picked up and chased after on my own, so I can’t give a firm answer on that.

And I agree with you about “brother in Christ.” I would say that too. My point was simply that friend is better the colleague. The only gender neutral term would be sibling, but that just sounds silly.

By: Scripture Zealot

Scripture Zealot — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:11:45 +0000

Is the translation of adelphos as brother just tradition that should go by the wayside? Aside from gender, isn't there some sort of an affiliation?

I would normally say Mike is a brother in Christ as opposed to a friend in Christ (not because you're not a friend).

TC, we still don't know if any sisters were with him while he was in prison do we?
Jeff

By: TC

TC — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:13:14 +0000

How do we know there may have been females with him?It is evident from Paul other letters that women were his coworkers and so on (Rom 16:3; Phil 4:2-3).By the way, Euodia and Syntyche were Philippians and coworkers of Paul. Phil 4:21 in the TNIV is fine to me.

By: mike

mike — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:41:14 +0000

I can maybe understand the problem with the TNIV, but not the NRSV. “Friends” is far better than “colleagues,” which is way too formal a translation of the Greek. And “friends” makes no comment on the gender of the people with Paul.

With that said, there is also a debate going on in scholarship about the meaning of adelphos, itself. Does it mean “man?” Or does it mean “person”? A number of people have argued quite strongly that its the latter. And it is a meaning supported by some of the lexicons (which by the way are all deficient). If that argument is true, then the NIV could be considered just as interpretive (if not more) than the TNIV.